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An Insider's Guide to the Conroe ISD Level 3 Hearing on Lily and Dunkin
This past Tuesday, April 18, 2024, a book that concerned our community came before the school board for a Level 3 hearing. The way it works is that when a parent first finds a concerning book, he or she will either informally ask the librarians to look into it or formally challenge the book beginning the formal reconsideration process. If the parent decides to formally challenge the book, this is considered a “level 2” when the book comes before the anonymous kangaroo committee. My understanding is there are a lot of questions about how these committee members are chosen and how fair the committee really is. I hope to look more closely at this in the future. The level 2 committee unanimously approved the book to be available to 7th graders. The claim that these members were randomly chosen from a pool of volunteers is, frankly, not believable.
How the process started.
The book, Lily and Dunkin, was identified by Mr. Garrett Costello. Mr. Costello decided to go directly to the formal challenge process to get the book on record as he was appalled that it had been placed on the shelves for 5th graders to pick up. The kangaroo committee decided to remove it from 5th and 6th grade libraries but leave it in the jr. high and high school libraries. I will add the book quotes below, or you can access them in my review article. I think you will agree with Mr. Costello that this was completely unacceptable.
Mr. Costello then decided to move forward with a level 3 appeal to the school board. This means he, or a representative of his choosing, would present an argument before the board for 10 minutes. A representative from the school will have 10 minutes to counter, and the board will have time for questions and discussion. Mr. Costello was not able to present that day, so I volunteered to present for him. I am honored that he would trust me with this profoundly important task.
Mr. Costello is publicly named.
Before I go into what occurred on Tuesday, I want to first bring your attention to the reality that the school district decided to name Mr. Costello on the agenda as the parent who brought forth the complaint. This was not done in previous level 3 hearings because the complainant is supposed to be anonymous. One can only surmise why this might have been overlooked.
Interestingly, in the Reconsideration Committee Report below, Mr. Costello’s name is redacted. One would assume that sometime between February 23rd and April 18th the decision was made to make his identity public. The decision to make his identity public looks an awful lot like intimidation. If this is true, then district administrators are completely out of control.
A WARNING: I am going to discuss some sensitive topics below. If you are easily disturbed, please reconsider continuing on.
Public Comments
Public comments start at 22:00.
23 community members spoke asking for the book to be removed.
5 community members advocated for the book to be retained.
Conservatives wearing red filled the seating and lined the walls with standing room only.
One of the first items on the agenda is public comment. Often 4-10 people sign up per month. This day there were over 30 citizens there to comment and many of you volunteered this day, courageously, because of this publication. Thank you. Many have worn a red shirt, which made it easier for me to find you and hand you a sheet with book quotes on it so you could see for yourself what the board was voting on. You spoke and three board members heard you loud and clear.
State Representative Steve Toth (@Toth_4_Texas) was one of the speakers, and he also invited three friends whom he met at the capitol last year while advocating to protect children. Two courageous young people, Abel Garcia (@officialabelg) and Emelie Schmidt (@sullivanstar221), who were caught up in this in their adolescence and have now detransitioned, spoke bravely. Representative Toth also invited Gabrielle Clark (@GabsClark5 @AffirmReal), who saved her daughter from the trans cult. I think you will agree that their stories were the most important stories told that night. Their voices matter, and we must hear them. I will drop these four videos below for easy viewing.
Gabrielle Clark offered to find lawyers for any families who were harmed from this book, or any other propaganda offered in the schools. Some of our more liberal community members, who usually come to level 3 hearings to express their outrage that a book is challenged, were interestingly not there. Perhaps they read the book and weren’t willing to go as far as to advocate for this content?
Abel Garcia said, “This book teaches students nothing but to hate themselves, their bodies, and to hate anyone who disagrees with their transgender ideology. I speak from my personal experience as a detransitioner. Gender affirming care did not save me. It harmed me. It has caused lifelong consequences because I trusted so-called medical professionals. While I transitioned as an adult, I am currently dealing with genital atrophy, possible sterilization, muscle tremors, just to name a few side effects. If I, as an adult, am dealing with these side effects, I have no hope for these students who transition as minors.”
Mr. Garcia made an excellent point that may be uncomfortable for many to talk about: All people who received puberty blockers before Tanner Stage II (the phase in puberty when pubic hair makes an appearance and genitals grow in size) and went on to transition have never achieved orgasm in adulthood. This is important because this is a part of sexual function created by God to bond partners in marriage. This medical intervention is PROMOTED by the book. The main character, Tim, specifically discusses wanting to stop puberty before Tanner Stage II, so he won’t +“grow” down there.
At the beginning of Mr. Garcia’s testimony, he addressed a local citizen Rachel Walker, who is getting her master’s in clinical psychology, and invited her to stay after and speak to him about his actual experience with gender affirming care. In her comment just before Mr. Garcia’s, Ms. Walker claimed that the studies, statistics and claims presented by our side were “wildly inaccurate,” but she did not give any specific studies to support her claim. Ms. Walker left immediately after public comment.
Emelie Schmidt was transitioned by her school, without her parent’s knowledge, in the Port Neches Groves school district. I never, in my wildest dreams, would have thought this was happening over there over a decade ago! If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere. From Ms. Schmidt, “As a child I was groomed to be trans. My school had a huge part in this. Media similar to the book, Lily and Dunkin, led me to have gender dysphoria at 14 years old. Soon my whole life became surrounded by trans everything. This made me believe that my body was wrong and needed fixing with surgeries and hormones. All I ever really needed was for somebody to tell me it was OK to be a tomboy, but instead I was walked down a path of suicidal ideations and anxiety due to media like this book that you have available to 7th graders. I am here to ask you, why do you want to teach children that their bodies are wrong…”
All three witnesses testified that media like the book in question, Lily and Dunkin, was responsible for gender confusion. This was completely ignored by the three liberal trustees, and one trustee did not feel this was important enough to attend the hearing at all and left early.
Pastor Trent Smith, a pastor in Conroe, was the last speaker during public comment. I cannot tell you how glad I was to see a local pastor speak on this issue. Pastor Smith spoke about his concerns about the district indoctrinating kids. He expressed his hope that the district would focus on education.
Finally, Christian Collins spoke about common sense and the importance of protecting children. He told a story about a pastor’s daughter he met who was confused due to books and tiktok, but she thankfully grew out of it.
The Level 3 Hearing Begins
The hearing was at the end of the meeting, and you can start watching it at the 3:00:00 mark. The school superintendent, Dr. Curtis Null ran the hearing and began by introducing the book and calling on me. I stepped to the podium to speak. This is not really my wheelhouse, so when I tell you the Lord had me in his hands, I truly mean that. I had the help of many people smarter than me helping with the speech and researching. The timing was absolutely the Lord! One month before this hearing, the WPATH Files had been released. A friend of mine had recently sent me a YouTube link to a Jordan Peterson interview with the journalist who published the files, Michael Shellenberger which prompted me to look more closely at these files. A few days before the meeting, The Cass Review was published, and I saw JK Rowling share it on twitter. This is a fascinating and terrifying look at how this pseudo-science went terribly wrong in the UK.
The house of cards is crumbling, and I knew this book was challenged and came to the board at this moment because it was the Lord’s will. Due to the sensitive content that included medical transition (that is now illegal for minors) the request was for the book to be completely removed. Amazingly we lost. You can read a copy of my speech that I published Monday morning or view the clip below.
After I spoke, Dr. Jarod Lambert was called up to defend the book. Dr. Lambert defended the last two books that were up for reconsideration. He may have defended more. Before taking a position as head of IT at Conroe ISD, Dr. Lambert was VP at Hailey Elementary and then Principal at Bush Elementary.
His main argument for keeping the book seems to be that the reconsideration committee voted, unanimously to keep it. This is because it is a Kangaroo Committee, but that will be the subject of another post. Dr. Lambert also seems to take shots at Mr. Costello when discussing what Mr. Costello’s complaints were. Then Dr. Lambert attempts to “school” Mr. Costello about “what books are” and “what libraries are.” Dr. Lambert continues by discussing Mr. Costello’s appeal content “Lily and Dunkin is not age appropriate.” Dr. Lambert then says, “That is the sum total of his specific disagreement with the committee’s decision. We are left by the appeal to divine what is unsuitable in or what harm might result from reading the book.”
Really Dr. Lambert? You read the book, and you couldn’t figure it out? I will drop my full review here for anyone who missed it. I’m just a lowly homeschool mom. If I could figure this out, surely the Phd in education could figure this out?
Here is his speech for you to listen for yourself:
After Dr. Lambert speaks, the board is invited to ask Dr. Lambert and myself questions.
Are parents truly notified about content?
Every question Trustee Stacey Chase asks is condescending with a snide tone. She asks if it is part of instructional material. Is any student forced to read this book? She makes a big deal about my comment that this book could be checked out unbeknownst to parents because emails go out with book titles to parents who want them. My point was that parents don’t always have time to take a look at the content of every book which is conveniently left out of these emails, but children shouldn’t be subjected to age inappropriate or harmful material when they browse for books regardless.
Here is why a parent not being notified can be a problem: Let’s talk about the bipolar aspect of the book. Let’s say a child has bipolar or has a parent with bipolar and asks the librarian for a book about bipolar. The librarian helps. This child reads this book, but the parent is too busy that week to look deeply into the books the child checked out. The child becomes very stressed out about whether his dad might kill himself, or obsesses about other events in the book, and there is a psychiatric emergency. This emergency could have been avoided if the school had included a short blurb about some of the book content. Trustee Theresa Wagaman, who left early, stated in a board meeting last year that she reads every book her kids read, and it’s the parent’s responsibility to be aware of all content. It seems that according to her logic the psychiatric emergency would have been the parent’s fault for not being diligent enough? The school has no responsibility to notify parents so that the parent can make sure to have these conversations with her child?
A secure child will co-regulate with an attachment figure, his parent, but sometimes the parent needs to know what is going on to nudge the child to share what is on his heart. This is not always possible, however, I would like to submit that if a school official hands a book with difficult content to a child without notifying the parent, the school is at fault. If a child is allowed to check out any harmful material, even if the parents are notified, the school is responsible for any harm caused. I was disturbed by this exchange between Trustee Chase and Dr. Lambert.
Rabbit Trails
Trustee Datren Williams calls me to answer some questions. He tries to lead me down some odd rabbit trails that I refuse to engage in, so he goes on a diatribe. It was a little hard to follow his line of thinking. At some point, he seems to be saying that he doesn’t think the book could be leading kids down this road. At this point I WISH I had responded that we have two witnesses in the audience prepared to testify to the reality that media like this book did contribute to their transition. As detransitioners their voices were the most important in the room! Trustee Misty Odenweller did ask if she could call them up to answer questions later on, but Dr. Null shot it down quickly as if anticipating this.
Trustee Williams then tells me that if I haven’t gotten the county attorney to come and bring charges on the school for having it, then it’s not illegal and can be in there. I wish I had been more prepared for this line of seemingly subconscious flow, because he likes to talk about this and has in previous board meetings. I should have seen it coming.
Why can’t law enforcement respond to this book?
When I fumbled around, I was trying to refer to Texas Penal Code § 43.24(a)(2). This states that anyone contributing to the delinquency to a minor, including providing pornography, can be charged. However, the caveat is that if the material has educational value, then it is no longer considered harmful. Sex education material used in a school setting would be a good example of this. When I responded to him saying, “I think we both know,” to which he snapped, “no I don’t know.” I find this hard to believe, and my only guess is that he must think the general public is stupid and wouldn’t look into it themselves. The reality is that community members have gone to law enforcement about certain books, and nothing could be done. The bigger question though: Is that the standard for allowing a book in the school? As long as it doesn’t violate penal code?
He then tries to deny that the book encourages children to look into medical transition. When I pointed out the resources in the back where children can find adults to chat with about it on websites, he shuts me down and sends me back to my seat.
The defense of this book is weak.
Dr. Lambert’s response about whether the content is harmful is odd. He hasn’t read any of the other studies, so he “can’t speak to their validity,” but they were sent a week ago, so why not? He compares this book with books that have kidnapping and slavery and how illegal activity is in lots of library books, but those books do not encourage illegal activity. Slavery is never discussed in a positive light. His defense of this book is weak, and he seems unprepared.
Isn’t it just fiction? Yet websites are provided.
Trustee Hubert seems really interested in whether the book should stay because it doesn’t violate current policy. He is very quiet and careful about most of his comments, until he interrupts me at one point saying with extra distain, “This book is fiction correct?” I don’t think you really get to call literature so important that it literally saves lives for a child to see themselves represented in literature, and then say it’s fiction so content doesn’t matter. When I respond that it is realistic fiction, he laughs, and he and Trustee Williams seem to make fun of me saying, “that’s a new one.” This is a good place to drop some of the websites found in the back of this book. Ready for this? On these websites there are adults waiting on messenger chats or hotlines for your child to call and talk to about gender.
lunafest.org/the-films/details/i-am-a-girl
Kangaroo Committee
Trustee Tiffany Nelson makes the point that the committee is supposed to be making decisions based on community values. Dr. Lambert claims that the members are randomly chosen. I do not believe this is true, and this will be the subject of a future substack post.
What questions were not asked.
The three mama bears were clearly well informed and had considered the information sent to them. The other school board members who voted to keep the book, seemed to have ignored all of the newest scientific data sent to them. There were no follow up questions about the WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) files which show serious concerns about informed consent and the grand scale at which children are being harmed. No questions were asked about the study I provided from the American Urological Association that showed boys doubled their risk of psychiatric emergencies after receiving vaginoplasty. The Cass Review about how gender affirming care was harming kids in the UK was ignored, as well as the study showing that most boys turned out to be gay if left alone without prepubertal transition.
The only report provided that was discussed was Attorney General Ken Paxton’s opinion issued that medical transition is child abuse. This question was directed at Dr. Lambert who sluffed it off as just an opinion that could be taken one way or another. Dr. Lambert ignored SB 14 which made medical transition for minors illegal, and referred to the studies I had mentioned as something he hadn’t read at all and couldn’t speak to. The three board members who voted in favor of the book seemed completely uninterested in any of this.
edit to add: Trustee Misty Odenweller did bring up the studies and SB 14 and attempts to hold Dr. Lambert’s feet to the fire about his defense of the book as not being harmful. Dr. Lambert continues to defend the book. Trustee Tiffany Nelson also contributes by pointing out that none of the other books he mentions encourages illegal acts. Dr. Lambert responds with, “Ms. Nelson, I hear exactly what you’re saying, I guess we fundamentally disagree that I don’t believe this book encourages the actions that you think it encourages.” As stated in the paragraph above, Dr. Lambert does not want to discuss any of the other alarming concerns and studies.
The board begins discussion at this time.
Trustee Misty Odenweller makes an important point that this book can be considered harmful material, and therefore violates library policy. Unfortunately, since so many people who work for the district can’t understand this, we will need a new library policy to spell it out for them.
Where are the conservative books anyway?
This is when Trustee Williams goes on his diatribe about fairy tales. He tries to compare this book to Goldilocks and the Three Bears. This is worth a watch so I will drop it below. Some of the statements he makes might cause one to wonder if he read the book. He then begins to accuse someone (me?) of pushing white Christian values on the community. Calling conservative values “white” was a weird statement to make.
Interestingly enough, there are no conservative books in the school libraries AT ALL. Therefore, when we are talking about what values are being pushed on kids in our taxpayer funded schools, Trustee Williams, I think you should look at the three fingers that are pointing back at yourself and your woke friends. I looked for Candace Owens book; it’s not there. Thomas Sowell is not there. If you’re going to put books like, Some Girls Bind, in the high schools, why would you not also put Time to Think by Hannah Burnes or Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier? Shouldn’t high schoolers also have access to this information too?
Additional Comments
Trustee Tiffany Nelson said, “Never in a million years did I think we would need to put illegal activities in our policy.” “[The story is] very realistic, you can put yourself in the story and imagine that that person is you.”
Trustee Skeeter Hubert tells us that he’s read more 7th and 8th grade books now than he did when he was in 7th and 8th grade. I guess he didn’t read then because he read one of these books last year, and this is the first one this year. He might have read one other book that was pulled from reconsideration in February, so three books?
Trustee Hubert says his personal feelings aside, “I don’t have anyone in my family dealing with gender dysphoria but I do know it’s real.” “I feel like my role is to see if it meets the selection criteria technically.” After longer discussion, Trustee Hubert concludes that the book does not violate the selection criteria. Then he goes on and on about how tickled he was to get an email from the author defending her book.
Trustee Melissa Dungan mentions that this book shouldn’t have even gotten to this level.
Trustee Stacey Chase seems angry that her time was wasted by me. You’re welcome. I’m happy to be of service.
The following trustees actions resulted in the book staying in 7th - 12th grade:
Trustee Theresa Wagaman LEFT EARLY and did not vote.
Trustee Stacey Chase voted to keep the book.
Trustee Skeeter Hubert voted to keep the book.
Trustee Datren Williams voted to keep the book.
These board members chose to ignore the studies I included, the inappropriate book content (medical advice in the book), and frankly they are complicit in the harm being done to kids. As I stated in my speech, they are on the wrong side of history. I recently read-aloud to my kids from a Tuttle Twins history book, a history lesson that these so-called leaders could use.
“After World War II, a psychologist named Stanley Milgram wanted to understand how so many German people were capable of committing such horrible acts as part of Hitler’s murderous regime.”
In his experiment subjects were told to administer electric shocks, increasing in intensity to a person on the other side of the wall for every wrong answer. The actor on the other side of the wall begged the subject to stop, crying out in pain, but 65% of the subjects would not stop.
“This shows the dangers of the authoritarianism. Many people don’t take responsibility for their own actions, instead thinking that accountability should fall on the authority figure. But when this happens there may be no end to the horrors they might preform.”
“There will likely be a time in your life when you are told to support or do something that you think is wrong. How can you prepare yourself now to avoid falling into the authoritarianism mindset and instead take personal responsibility for your own actions?
Trustee Hubert said, “I just don’t know how I vote this book out with our current policy.” A friend responded from the crowd, “You raise your hand. You just raise your hand.” All these trustees needed to do was raise their hands, but they couldn’t because they are followers. I made the point in my speech that this violation is taking place because of a system and no one person can be blamed. In this case, the administration is the authority, NOT THE PARENTS. These trustees are not willing to stand up against this authority, the system, the administration, to protect kids.
We see this all the time with corporations. Monsanto is an excellent example of this when their talking point was that Roundup (glyphosate) was so safe that you could drink it. Later when a company representative was asked to do just that, drink roundup, on the television show, The Doctors, the representative refused. He was following the authority, the system, until his own wellbeing was suddenly at risk. This is how someone ignores all reason, all science, all the witnesses, and chooses to “administer the shock.” He is just following orders until he has skin in the game.
I heard a lot of blame being passed around last week during that meeting. “I have an opinion, but my opinion doesn’t really matter, it’s the committee’s decision.” These four and Dr. Lambert were hiding behind the “authority” of the level 2 reconsideration committee put together by the school administrators. They didn’t want the authority to overturn the decision. They didn’t seem to want to lead. Perhaps they just wanted to take orders, like the participants in the study?
NOVEMBER IS COMING
This is just one example of why these four need to be retired by the voters. They have also been helping the district cover their tracks and preventing the SHAC (Student Health Advisor Counsel) from holding the district accountable. I hope to dig more into that later.
The district has clearly turned into a SWAMP, and we need conservative leaders who will drain the swamp. This book is the tip of the iceberg. A few years ago, under Dr. Null’s leadership, the district was told to not inform parents of name or pronoun changes. This policy was reversed after a whistleblower came forward. Sarah Fields (@sarahiscensored) on X uncovered a backdoor on the Conroe ISD student portal that led to porn last year. She recently reposed this story since Dr. Lambert is the head of IT.
We are continuing to uncover issues with the Conroe ISD administration, so stay tuned.
Written by Michele Nuckolls, a local homeschool mom who spends a lot of time in the public library with her kids.
Written on behalf of all the CISD parents and teachers who said, “I can’t say anything for fear of retaliation.”
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